Randi Rhodes Forums

I love you Randi and you are one of my longest gurus (since the '90s), I'm one of your gorgeous girdle gays, so I'm not some religious or politically attacking "wackadoodle"

I believe that life as we humans experience it begins with awareness or feeling and that happens sometime after the zygote has made it's home in the uterus and actually starts growing, (living), and developing the ability to "feel" .

While whatever happens to sperm and eggs prior to that (please forgive me for being graphic here, but to make the point) whether guys ejaculate anywhere outside of a vagina or a women's eggs are discharged during menstruation or are affected by birth control or anything else preventing uterus implantation may be diversely arguable amongst those debating the issues of life, it quite different from saying that a fetus is not life because it can't live without you prior to a certain time while it is growing, moving and *living* inside of you, may feel and have thoughts.

I heart you and RRMB:)

Are you arguing against roe v. Wade?

Right now the cutoff for elective abortions is viability (2nd trimester roughly 21 wks), exactly the moment when the fetus can exist outside the womb.

Even a zygote is alive, of course. But so are sperm, ova, and slime molds and cockroaches.

The question is is it a human person with human rights, not whether or not it is alive. Most societies confer personhood at birth. Roe v. Wade confers limited rights on a developing fetus based on development as potential life. Thing is, potential life shouldn't have more rights than actual life - the mother.

Agree, and to extend that, my opinion is, the fetus becomes a human when its host, the potential mother, decides she wants to bring it to term--and even not then--if she changes her mind.

You can disagree til the cows come home, Tom...but when you can push a baby out, then you'll have some standing on making decisions regarding that.

Life does not begin until after morning coffee. Thus spake the Goddess Caffeina.

you need to emphasize "push a baby the size of a BASKETBALL" out....

santorum thinks life begins at erection, bill maher

Ok that's cool, Tom. But be aware that what you say is 1000% belief, and has nothing to do with facts.

Potatoes unpicked and still in the ground may feel and have thoughts. How do you know they don't??

A zygote that may have some kind of physical problem may not be able to "feel" - what, then?

We do not know when human life begins. When it ends is an equally iffy matter, especially if you've had to make either/or decisions about loved ones on life support. Those matters are strictly up to the caregivers and medical staff, not anyone's personal beliefs on the matter.

This is the heart of Roe v Wade. I wish those making so-called "prolife" arguments would pay attention to it.

And btw, afaic, the rights of the already-born will always trump any "rights" of the not/never/pre born. Without the already-born woman there is no not/never/pre born anything.

Which goes to the heart of the issue, overall, doesnt it?

Isnt it so that practically all anti choice people have in common a disrespect for Women as equals to Men?

We joke about if men got pregnant there would be abortion clinics on every corner, but there would be.

Imagine one group of men saying to another group of men "you cannot have tattoos, we will make it illegal" , I cant think of any others, but no society makes rules about what men can do outside of harming others...

Not arguing against Roe V. Wade, it's the law of the land. While I would never encourage someone to have an abortion, I am completely pro-choice and for people dealing with their own decisions. My point was disagreeing at what point whavever you want to call what is inside a woman's body "life". Those things you mentioned in your last line are what I said in my initial post can be highly debatable amongst some but it is different from talking about a fetus developed enough to move, swallow, suck it's thumb or whatever else they are doing in there before being viable outside of the womb.

And you said, "exactly the moment when the fetus can exist outside the womb"... I don't think with the wide variences of human development before or after birth that one can declare any exact time that applies to every pregnancy. However at 21 weeks the central nervous system is quite developed.

http://www.babycenter.com/fetal-develop ... s-20-weeks
http://www.babycenter.com/fetal-develop ... s-21-weeks

Not trying to make any decisions for anyone, just sharing my view on the topic. Women were not allowed in the contraception hearing today but I would never expect similar gender bias at RRMB....

My point exactly.