Randi Rhodes Forums

You had to be there.

No doubt. That's why I asked.

Being a lifelong southerner it becomes my duty to point something out to you guys. The education system in the south isn't as good as it is in the rest of the nation. We should feel sorry for the people who are featured in the recent South Carolina video which has been posted on the Randi Rhodes site. We shouldn't laugh and pick at them for their ignorance - that stinks of elitism. We must remember that is wasn't just the college graduate labor organizers who made the labor movement what it was and is, it was also uneducated hard working Americans.

Randi, please focus on the ignorance (it's not stupidity because they can't do anything about the way they were raised and educated) and poverty which exists in the south. A lot of southern baby boomers are from the first and second generation to have indoor plumbing. I had an uncle who had an outhouse until the mid-nineties. The people of the south could be a major progressive force if someone would talk to them and explain how they have been brainwashed by Fox news and how they are being used by corporate America as a trusted voting block. Someone needs to reach out to these people, you wouldn't believe how open they are to ideas once you befriend them and don't look down on them for their ignorance. After speaking with one guy that I know for months (this is a guy who voted for George Wallace in Alabama back in the day) I have convinced him that global warming is a serious problem, but they don't hear this information because they have been left behind technologically and because everyone has turned their back on them except for Fox news, corporate America, and the Republican party.

I used to be a Republican because I had been brought up to think a certain way, but once I went to college I learned that 90 percent of the things I had heard were wrong. The Democratic party needs a long term "southern strategy." Populism works in the south and the Republicans have figured that out.

Check out the education stats of the south here: http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/states/
Just roll your pointer over the states and look at how southern states compare to the rest of the nation. All of the deep south states perform worse than the national average except for North Carolina and Tennessee in mathematics.

the problem i run into being from tn, people are happy about it. they don't want to learn or improve.

I've been thinking about this for awhile, and I don't have a good answer, so I thought I'd listen to what other people have to say, maybe dialog about it for a bit.

We often hear about how some other group is not paying their fair share of taxes. What I don't hear explained is how the new idea is fair. What are the principles behind the idea which make it a fair one?

Some of my thoughts:

More than the law - I don't think that it is enough to say that by obeying the law, you're paying your fair share. If that were the case, only tax cheats would be acting unfairly. Seems to me that the law isn't always fair, so obedience to the law doesn't neccesarily mean you're acting in a fair manner.

More money, more taxes - There seems to be a general consensus that the more you make, the more you pay. Seems reasonable, but this isn't enough to parse through the various tax plans proposed. Two proposals (hypothetical), one where the tax rate is 90% for everything above $300K, and the first $25K are tax free has the wealthy paying more tax. But so does a plan that says everyone pays 25% of their income. The difference is how much more one group pays than another, but both plans have the wealthy paying more.

Spend more, pay more - Should consumption be taxed instead of income? Should some purchases be exempt? (In CA, grocery purchases are sales tax exempt)

Tax deductions - Are some activities better than others? Do we want to reward these activities with tax breaks?

I certainly don't have any answers on this. I understand the idea of fairness in the flat tax argument, everyone pays the same rate. Not sure I agree with it, but I have trouble showing how another plan is more fair.

Note: I know that people generally have an idea on who should pay (someone else), and who should receive (themselves), but let's discuss principles behind taxation rather than specific winners and losers. A coworker of mine stated that he thought the estate tax rate should be high, around 90%, because the deceased owed the nation which gave them the opportunity to make their money. Right or wrong, I don't know. But a taxation idea based on a principle, I like it.

I hope Randi knows about the Northern California Beagle Rescue. Go to http://www.norcalbeagles.com to see the beagles looking for homes. Beagles of all ages that have lost their owners, been surrendered, rescued from research laboratories and puppy mills. Good organization. I have rescued 4 beagles from them. As for the toads-remember that beagles will eat anything! They can be noisy and are escape artists. But are absolutely wonderful if trained!

Perhaps I may offer some insight to how I saw the birth certificate issue. I am conservative, and there are things about the President that I don't like, but I suspect like many others, this issue wasn't one of them.
When - what I remember hearing (what I remember thinking)
Summer of 08 - something about Kenya? (Huh?)
Fall of 08 - Obama not born in US. (Oh great, more conspiracy theorists, I hate those guys)
Jan of 09 - Lawsuits (Yeah right, not even in dreamland)
Summer of 09 to Summer of 10 - ... birther . . . malaysia . . . Hawaii (I can't believe I'm going to be a father and other important stuff)
Fall of 10 - Gov of HI to release long form birth certificate in addition to short form (What, you mean all this nonsense has been going on while a form was already released?!?!)
Trump the other day - birth certificate blah blah (I that's all you've got to talk about, I'm done listening)

Now, this is a rough outline of what I experienced and my reaction to it. From those I know, the sentiment is the same, we don't care about the birth certificate, we care about the decisions being made by the President, and we disagree with them. Too much focus on the birth issue from anyone is getting annoying, to the point where I wonder if they really care about the issues facing our country.

If I were running, and George Stephanopoulus asked me if this Certificate of Live Birth closed the issue, I would reply,

It's done. If we want to talk about a crazy conspiracy, I'll sit down with Jesse Ventura. This country is involved in two wars and one kinetic military action. There is unrest throughout the Middle East, unemployment is high, and persistent. Food and fuel prices are on the rise, and Americans are feeling squeezed. Let's drop this nonsense, and deal with the important issues.

Ok Here goes. See if people remember or if I imagined it. Back during prez campign on old board people were beginning to mesh and get behind Obama when a young poster Annie came on the board. She began by asking for advice as she was torn betw her conservative parents and the arguments for Obama and everyone was trying to be supportive. Soon her arguments became tea party like and she was called out. Kind of like Peggy in commercials - outsourced bearded Russian dude that answers as Peggy. Anyways she posted same way or pre-Palin like.

I thought this part was key in your post. I've been thinking the underlying principle has to be the Constitution which is supposed to be an advancement of society even if it wasn't at the time for slaves, indigenous or has been imperfect. But the "greed is good" aspect of first line is what is taking taxation issue out of context. The tea party has twisted taxation without representation by attacking SOCIAL SERVICES instead of military and corporate entitlements and for their own individual good it seems or they are just plain bought off.

Welcome aboard!

International Lawyer and life long Democract is not a crazy birther but rather someone who actually is informed and just so happens to know what he is talking about. As you will realize in the following text below. His website is www.obamacrimes.com


Mr. Berg is one of the very few who have the Obama birth issue correct. He is not saying Obama aka Barry O was not born in Hawaii. What he is saying however, is that because his mother enrolled little Barry into grade school in the country of Indonesia. Little Barry lost his status as a naturalized United States citizen as the fact that the two countries did not have a dual citizenship agreement at the time this took place, which was in the early to mid 1960s. Thus, Stanley Ann was the one who did this to her little Barry O.


Now ALL you liberals and progressives can tell me I am full of crap and not even look up any of these claims because of solely how you FEEL and or what you THINK/Want to believe. Reality and Truth 98.9% of the time have nothing to do with how one thinks/feels or wants... The ONLY thing that matters are facts in reality, no emotions needed… Leave your Randi Rhodes wannabe smart ass remarks out of this objective conversation…

I don't get any of you who are afraid for Barry O to simply show his birth certificate and put this whole thing to rest... I am a US Navy Veteran and I had to show my birth certificate to join the military. If someone wants to join the CIA, FBI or anything of the sort has to show theirs... So why shouldn't the man who is in charge of the western world not have to produce his birth certificate. You people bitch and moan about how dumb Bush was, which I just so happen to agree with you. But it appears logic has fails to enter your brains when you comment on such a basic issue. Just show us the real deal and people will shut up! What does Barry O have to lose? NOTHING!!! What does he have to gain? He gains the silence of the very people who believe he is not an American will have no choice but to STFU!!! Get over yourselves people... He is losing the country and he is hurting the country on purpose by finding more and more ways to pay off his would be donors for his re-election run within the next 18 months or so. WAKE UP!!!


Barry O is not even in charge of this country... He is just keeping the seat warm for the next puppet to come in and be controlled...

Thanks! I now think I vaguely remember that poster. She was kind of a variant of the "concern poster."

you made a lot of accusations. prove them. such as:


and


so i want links to back up these claims. that's how it works here. we do not just blindly follow any and every claim that comes along. here we require proof from reputable source. so put up or stfu aka retract your statements.

also that's PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA to you.