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Discovery Chan - Doomsday Bunkers


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 Post subject: Re: Discovery Chan - Doomsday Bunkers
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I agree. Preppers / Survivalists seem to be largely right wing conservatives bordering on mental illness - persecution complex and paranoia. They can take the least bit of information and turn it into reasons to justify their continued preparation for the end. Amazingly, somehow, they can keep it together enough to marry, have kids, hold a job, and function within society without going on the nut. But, they infect their family with this delusion that life will end, it will be terrible, and those that survive must be ready. They are dominate personalities, and they do not play well with people that challenge their beliefs.



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 Post subject: Re: Discovery Chan - Doomsday Bunkers
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The portrayal of people that build bunkers as right wing fanatics is a stereotype. I suspect a product of propaganda. The truth is that they are probably the wealthy...
There are some that have bought up old missile xylose with the intention of building condo's in them. I think that is a cool idea...
In my state the military has built numerous underground bunkers into the mountains, bases and airports. My job is practically on top of the National Nuclear Weapons Storage Facility.
Also, as part of the culture of the Pueblos here, they believe that their ancestors had previously lived in caverns deep in the earth. I wouldn't be surprised if that were true, and that the cavern system was being maintained.
As for me, I have always thought that living in an underground home would be cool. It might even be better for the earth.


I grew up atop and plowing through, surface Pueblo ruins, around home we'd see Basketmaker III to Pueblo II, 50 BCE to 1150 CE. The whole corner of Southwest Colorado is like that, fifty steps to reach the next rock pile, look closely and low and behold it's another ancient ruin.

The dirt road to Hovenweep went past one of those bean fields receiving the yearly attention of the mull board plow. There was a lot of sign that personal protection was an issue and when those folks moved on into the cliff dwellings at Meas Verde, the Pueblo III, building a home that also would be a bunker, then fort, then a castle, becomes readily apparent. Someone or something was their bitter enemy, their enemy may have been fear it's self. Their GODs were, and still are, pretty darned scary If you ask me.

Something about all that seems still present soaked into the land. Camping out in the brush, hearing the coyotes out there in the dark making their eerie sounds is spooky enough. That land is ancient, it feels overrun with spirits and ghosts.



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 Post subject: Re: Discovery Chan - Doomsday Bunkers
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I was watching a program about how solar flares could effect electricity for days, or an earthquake, etc., and it showed how quickly you would be in trouble if you were not at least a little prepared, just a matter of a few short days, really.

Water, mainly, would be an issue. I think it makes sense to have some water just in case, or some food...

I like to think that "we are all in this together" would mean there would be no violence or very little, but I dont have that much faith in my fellow human being...

To date I have an extra 30 or so bottles of water and probably a dozen cans of one kind of food or another, but this is all by coincidence.

Many of the survivalists that I hear about do seem to be the whacky types who are hoping for dark days to come...

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Perhaps I am a little sensitive to the portrayal of white men as crackers and such. The last survivalist living in a shack in the woods I remember was a leftist, the Unibomber, Ted Kazinsky. And, there was those environmental "terrorists" burning down places. But they also were white males. As for the right wing types, I don't recall a comparable amount of mayhem from them.
Probably because they are hiding in underground bunkers. Out of sight, out of mind. Still I maintain that it is the wealthy that are building bunkers, not impoverished rednecks.

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I was watching a program about how solar flares could effect electricity for days, or an earthquake, etc., and it showed how quickly you would be in trouble if you were not at least a little prepared, just a matter of a few short days, really.


There's nothing wrong with reasonable disaster preparation.

Every year around hurricane season, I prepare to have about a week or two's worth of food and water on hand, as well as other emergency supplies. And unlike other people, I don't wait until the Hurricane is 2 hours away before rushing out to the store to buy it (because I know the shelves will be empty at that point, if the store's not already closed.)

Survivalism essentially means preparing for a nuclear war or some other event that would wipe out most of the life on Earth. Some apocalyptic event.

I repeat - if I did survive such an event, I'm not sure I'd want to live much longer beyond it. So I don't see much point in hoarding years and years worth of food or other supplies for it.

BTW, Randys, the worst solar flares in the historical record caused a few isolated blackouts all over the world, and interfered with TV & radio communication in some areas. You seem to be worried about it somehow knocking out power and communication all over the Earth. Have you been watching the end of that Nick Cage movie KN0WING too much? It's not going to be like that.

The biggest yet known occurred in 1859.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_storm_of_1859

Fortunately, in 1859, there wasn't a lot of electronic infrastructure for that storm to effect. Still, most astronomers have argued if that same storm were to happen again today - and the current solar flares are nowhere near that magnitude - the level of effects would not be irremediable or "apocalyptic". Sure, there would be communications and power knocked out. Again, sporadically, at various intervals, and all of it could be repaired.

Satellites may be more vulnerable than stuff here on the ground, they don't have the protection of the Van Allen belts. I'd worry about your satellite TV most of all. (If you have it.)

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Perhaps I am a little sensitive to the portrayal of white men as crackers and such. living in a shack in the woods I remember was a leftist, the Unibomber, Ted Kazinsky.


That's odd. He doesn't seem to think of himself as one, and by the way in his manifesto, he talks about "leftists" in the 3rd person. I would say he was more of an anti-technology Luddite than anything else. And you can find criticisms of technology on both sides of the political spectrum.

http://www.42inc.com/~estephen/manifesto/unabe2.html

7. But what is leftism? During the first half of the 20th century leftism could have been practically identified with socialism. Today the movement is fragmented and it is not clear who can properly be called a leftist. When we speak of leftists in this article we have in mind mainly socialists, collectivists, "politically correct" types, feminists, gay and disability activists, animal rights activists and the like. But not everyone who is associated with one of these movements is a leftist. What we are trying to get at in discussing leftism is not so much a movement or an ideology as a psychological type, or rather a collection of related types. Thus, what we mean by "leftism" will emerge more clearly in the course of our discussion of leftist psychology (Also, see paragraphs 227-230.)

[snip][end]

For what he seems to have thought about leftists, you ought to read articles 227-230.

I get the impression that he didn't like them very much (and oddly seems to waste a lot of time trying to psychoanalyze them), so it seems odd for him to be called one.

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And, there was those environmental "terrorists" burning down places.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eco-terrorism

Like deep ecologists, eco-terrorists subscribe to the idea of biocentrism, which is described as “a belief that human beings are just an ordinary member of the biological community” and that all living things should have rights and deserve protection under the law.[12] Some eco-terrorists are motivated by other aspects of deep ecology, like the goal to return the environment to its "natural", i.e., pre-industrial, state.

[snip][end]

Although there is some overlap between the environmental and left agenda (that's the whole basis of the environmental justice movement), IMHO "deep ecology" and/or "biocentrism" (the ideology of the radical "eco-terrorists" like Earth Liberation Front to which you refer) is not a "leftist" idea.

What I'm sensitive to is why you, and not Ted Kaczynski, seem to have a negative view of leftists, on a board for the political left.

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My opinons of left and right may have nuances. If I got Kazinsky wrong...my bad.

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I look at it this way, if you're gonna do it, do it right. The cost is a bit prohibitive for most folk. I seem to remember starting a thread on this on another version of the RRMB.


20th Century Castles, LLC


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Here's info on one near me that's quite reasonable...


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Nike Missile Base now available!

Southeastern Indiana

• 14.5 acres (more or less)
• 3 underground missile magazines each consisting of 5000 sq ft
• One missile magazine converted to residential:
--- Kitchen, 4 bedroom, 2 bath, exercise room, indoor swimming pool, jacuzzi tub
• Second missile magazine converted into shop & garage space
• Single phase electric & city water
• High security chain-link fence topped with barbed wire
• Paved access, with remote control rolling front gate
• Horse barn with 4 stables


Price $1,500,000.



MORE AT LINK

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oooooooooo!!! Sign me up

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Perhaps I am a little sensitive to the portrayal of white men as crackers and such. The last survivalist living in a shack in the woods I remember was a leftist, the Unibomber, Ted Kazinsky. And, there was those environmental "terrorists" burning down places. But they also were white males. As for the right wing types, I don't recall a comparable amount of mayhem from them.
Probably because they are hiding in underground bunkers. Out of sight, out of mind. Still I maintain that it is the wealthy that are building bunkers, not impoverished rednecks.


I don't see Ted Kazinsky as survivalist type. I saw his house on the back of a truck the day they hauled it through Missoula MT, so they could have it as evidence for his trial in California. I also drove up there along Hyw 12 to see the place it stood. It was just hidden in the woods, not fortified in any respect. And it was so small, and the walls so thin, that an attacker could have easily walked up and shot a handful of rounds right through his walls and they would been very likely to have hit him.



My cabin about 25 miles south of there had a floor hatch in every downstairs room, dropping into the crawl space, and there were to two escape tunnels from there under ground.

One tunnel opened into a deep grease service pit under the floor of the garage and shop, about 50 feet away. The other went down a hill and came up in a cluster of large rocks and brush, about 50 feet in the other direction. The walls of the cabin were thick and would stop a bullet. The windows had stout shutters, and the doors could be barred from the inside.

I bought the place and had been living there about a year before I discovered the tunnels. The neighbors said the fellow who had been living there before me had been a pot grower. I met the guy and would have categorized him to be basically a liberal.

The person who dug those tunnels could have also been the fellow before him, who they all said was a bit odd and paranoid. I thought that among my neighbors, some were a bit odd and paranoid myself, so that fellow must have been twice as odd and paranoid. All of my neighbors living at the end of the road, there in the woods were Republicans.



There was this fellow up north a bit, a Conservative or Libertarian, who had been holding the sheriff at bay for two or three years. He shot a sheriff deputy one morning climbed in his car and went home. From there he threatened to shoot any sheriff who dared to come onto his place to arrest him.

The Sheriff kept him holed up there and contained, and waited a couple of years until he lowered his guard, and then one morning they bagged him unharmed in his yard. I thought that sheriff was acting very sensibly.

And there was also that religious bunch, a kind of Mormon like group, over in eastern Montana, who had a month long stand off with the FBI while I was living there in the state.

And there was that woman and her kids up in the hills who disposed of her husband and the children's father, a hunk at a time through the wood stove. The boy had shot him, but they all helped carve him up. When the word got out, the locals and sheriff pretty much agreed, that fellow really deserved it and had it coming, and so they basically let them go. ...



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Both sides of my family relatives are in Montana. I lived in Bozeman '80-'84.
That would explain many of the stories.

(one cousin works in juvenile probation. He complained about a boy like the one in your story)

requisite on topic remark: Subterranean Lair, not just for evil reptoids.

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Both sides of my family relatives are in Montana. I lived in Bozeman '80-'84.
That would explain many of the stories.

(one cousin works in juvenile probation. He complained about a boy like the one in your story)

requisite on topic remark: Subterranean Lair, not just for evil reptoids.


I got there in '89 and I moved away in '00, and I sold my cabin in '04. The boy and story was from the hills west of Flathead lake, and the year was probably '92 or '93.

I understand the lure for have a nice safe place hidden underground, and It's bipartisan. The more isolated from other people a location is, the craving for a safe shelter will just naturally grow.

I'm also aware of how unhealthy soil gases can be, so a really good positive pressure ventilation system in an underground bunker is a wise idea. :)



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Both sides of my family relatives are in Montana. I lived in Bozeman '80-'84.
That would explain many of the stories.

(one cousin works in juvenile probation. He complained about a boy like the one in your story)

requisite on topic remark: Subterranean Lair, not just for evil reptoids.


I got there in '89 and I moved away in '00, and I sold my cabin in '04. The boy and story was from the hills west of Flathead lake, and the year was probably '92 or '93.

I understand the lure for have a nice safe place hidden underground, and It's bipartisan. The more isolated from other people a location is, the craving for a safe shelter will just naturally grow.

I'm also aware of how unhealthy soil gases can be, so a really good positive pressure ventilation system in an underground bunker is a wise idea. :)



I left there 10 years earlier. The need for a bunker is pretty great there. Considering that in an all out nuke fest Montana will be really crispy. Best thing is to have alternate transportation available.

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requisite on topic remark: Subterranean Lair, not just for evil reptoids.


Lots of people have basements.

Some people post on the Internet from their computer in one. :D

What makes a survivalist a survivalist is not that they have an underground room - or "lair" or "bunker" if you prefer - no, what makes them one is that they feel the need to stockpile it with everything that they need to survive a nuclear war or some other event that would lead to an apocalyptic collapse of society.

Note that by the way, most of these people, like Kurt Saxon, also seem focused on stockpiling weapons, because the first thing they seem concerned about after this terrible event happens is not finding other people and cooperating with them to figure out ways to survive (maybe like John Conner in "Terminator") but blowing the brains out of any other survivors who get too near "their survival stash". Rather than "let's figure out a way for the remnants of the human race to get through this" their focus is "fuck everybody else, me and my family will survive, and anybody who gets too close to our rations eats lead."

I really dig the ones who have rigged up their top entrance of their bunkers with flamethrowers and turrets. Now those guys are hella road warrior serious.

That's where I see a strong overlap with the other usual variants of the conservative worldview.

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CBC show The Current takes a look at "preppers."

Quote:
Described by some as Survivalism Lite, the prepping movement has been active on the Internet for years. There are scores of websites devoted to survival off the grid - covering everything from emergency breakfast to emergency ballistics. You can buy Prepper gear at Costco - a pre-packaged emergency supply kit designed to keep you alive for two weeks.

Daryl Stratichuk of Calgary has taken his preparations way beyond Costco. If the world as we know it ends, he's ready. If it just takes a short break, he's ready for that, too. The CBC's Falice Chin went to visit Daryl Stratichuk recently and we heard from him.

The prepping movement is most popular in the United States - where James Wesley Rawles estimates two per cent of the population can be described as preppers. Rawles is considered by many to be the guru of the modern Prepper movement. He's a former U.S. Army Intelligence Officer, a best-selling fiction and non-fiction writer, and the man behind SurvivalBlog.com.

http://www.cbc.ca/thecurrent/episode/2012/03/23/preppers/

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